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One of the oddest facts about the Wintel versus Unix (including Linux and the Mac) debate is that the Wintel proponents practically brag about never having actually used Unix while the most committed Mac/Unix advocates have generally used both. If in reality the Unix products really are better, faster and cheaper, why is it that we're always on the defensive, having to justify our choices against a Wintel default? Review, for example, the information collected under the Macintosh Justification heading by Macintouch.com.
I think the point that a lot of people miss is the hardware aspect of this situation. Case in point: I can buy cheap high-preformance intel based "boxes" just about everywhere - I HAVE
to buy relatively expensive Apple boxes to run OS/X. Would I RATHER run MacOS? Sure! I run Free and Net BSD on my other boxes and would MUCH RATHER have MacOS/X as my workaday desktop - but I don't want to pay Apple's prices. Once upon a time, there was an open spec called CHRP - remember it?
It featured Sun's OpenBoot EEPROM and would have allowed you to go to your local electronics store (say Fry's here in SV) and buy/build your own box and then you'd purchase a copy of MacOS
and install and run it. Uh... Just Like Windows and WhiteBoxes! WOW! What a concept. Some years ago there was a huge clamour from the Sun sales reps in D.C. 'cause the DOD wanted
Trusted Solaris for x86... Sun didn't want to do it fearing that it would cut into low-end SPARC based systems sales - what they missed was the inexpensive and disposable nature of
x86 hardware and the interchangability and most importantly that it's the OS and not the hardware that defines the platform seat: ISV's write to the OS not to the hardware (let's not
make that into a bigger issue - I understand the underlying HAL aspects). If Apple could "eat" the revenue losses from hardware long enough to see the gains from stand-alone OS sales, we might really see a true competitive OS contendor against Microsoft. Nah! Jobs will never let that happen... And I will
probably never own another MacOS based machine... which is very sad. I love the OS but not Apple.
to buy relatively expensive Apple boxes to run OS/X. Would I RATHER run MacOS? Sure! I run Free and Net BSD on my other boxes and would MUCH RATHER have MacOS/X as my workaday desktop - but I don't want to pay Apple's prices. Once upon a time, there was an open spec called CHRP - remember it?
It featured Sun's OpenBoot EEPROM and would have allowed you to go to your local electronics store (say Fry's here in SV) and buy/build your own box and then you'd purchase a copy of MacOS
and install and run it. Uh... Just Like Windows and WhiteBoxes! WOW! What a concept. Some years ago there was a huge clamour from the Sun sales reps in D.C. 'cause the DOD wanted
Trusted Solaris for x86... Sun didn't want to do it fearing that it would cut into low-end SPARC based systems sales - what they missed was the inexpensive and disposable nature of
x86 hardware and the interchangability and most importantly that it's the OS and not the hardware that defines the platform seat: ISV's write to the OS not to the hardware (let's not
make that into a bigger issue - I understand the underlying HAL aspects). If Apple could "eat" the revenue losses from hardware long enough to see the gains from stand-alone OS sales, we might really see a true competitive OS contendor against Microsoft. Nah! Jobs will never let that happen... And I will
probably never own another MacOS based machine... which is very sad. I love the OS but not Apple.
No offense, but if you cannot keep an XP 2003 server running with no down time then you are not an adminastrator.
I have linux and 2003 servers running and they have both been up for months with no issues.
Heck my personal XP box has been up for about a month or so, admittedly I only use it for mail and (it feels like anyway) VPN to work. Doing hard core development I can hard lock Linux just like I can XP.
People need to get over the anti-Microsoft train, get people to use the right environment for the work they are doing. If a user is more comfortable in Windows let em use Windows. Converting to a new OS for most people is too much change.
If you can get people to TRY something that is great, but if they don't want to change drop it.
My wife would never use anything other than Windows, why? One reason, she uses Office at work and Office at home, otherwise she plays the ocasional game (WoW which actually happens to have a Mac version) and browsing. All this could be done on a Mac, but there would be subtle differences that matter to her.
I have linux and 2003 servers running and they have both been up for months with no issues.
Heck my personal XP box has been up for about a month or so, admittedly I only use it for mail and (it feels like anyway) VPN to work. Doing hard core development I can hard lock Linux just like I can XP.
People need to get over the anti-Microsoft train, get people to use the right environment for the work they are doing. If a user is more comfortable in Windows let em use Windows. Converting to a new OS for most people is too much change.
If you can get people to TRY something that is great, but if they don't want to change drop it.
My wife would never use anything other than Windows, why? One reason, she uses Office at work and Office at home, otherwise she plays the ocasional game (WoW which actually happens to have a Mac version) and browsing. All this could be done on a Mac, but there would be subtle differences that matter to her.
So in your own words your friend is an "all-around good guy. He's very bright, deeply committed to his family first and his cultural values second, and fundamentally as honest as anyone I've met."
Now he is not your friend ? Hmm. I'm guessing from what I read that you never actually laid out calm and collect reasons why he might look at the Macintosh. No. You drove this "all-around good guy" to write you off.
In short you drove the poor man crazy and in all likelyhood he'll never look at the macintosh again because he'll always associate it with "that nut job I used to know"
Congrats. You didn't convince him of anything other than you are a raving lunatic who tried to drive a computer platform down his throat.
I'm sure he is better off without you Paul. From your writing I can only imagine what hell you put this guy through.
You are a tool.
Now he is not your friend ? Hmm. I'm guessing from what I read that you never actually laid out calm and collect reasons why he might look at the Macintosh. No. You drove this "all-around good guy" to write you off.
In short you drove the poor man crazy and in all likelyhood he'll never look at the macintosh again because he'll always associate it with "that nut job I used to know"
Congrats. You didn't convince him of anything other than you are a raving lunatic who tried to drive a computer platform down his throat.
I'm sure he is better off without you Paul. From your writing I can only imagine what hell you put this guy through.
You are a tool.
In my opinion Paul is touching the truth here...
I have been using a lot of different platforms in my life and for the moment my employer has Win XP as a standard for the desktops/laptops but at home I switched to Mac OSX a year ago.
Without regret. I do not have to spend time anymore in rebooting, crashing, reinstalling, virus-scanning, spy-ware checking, upgrading... and on top of that the OS is so much more fun to work with
Some of the people close to me switched as well now (Basically because they saw how enthusiast I was and maybe because I stopped giving support for Wintel... )
Some others really stick to Windows for all the wrong reasons.
- Price of the equipment: They call a Dell PC a brand A product and compare it to Apple... but compare it to HP for example. The price of the HW is more or less on the same level. On top of that, you will continue to work with your Mac for a longer time, because you are happy with it. With a Wintel after one year you feel that you need to upgrade.
- Price of the software: Difficult one. Why? Because they compare wonderful Apple applications like the ones included iLife (which you get for free when you purchase a Mac, but the future releases are to be paid) with the illegal copies they get for free from friends for the Wintel pc's.
- Availability of applications: "There are some much more applications available for PC". True. How many of the do you use? Paid version of MS Office? Available for Mac. Legal version of Adobe Photoshop? Available. A browser? Available. A mail application? .... get the picture?
Do I want to 'convert' you? No. I just want to share with you how happy I am on my new platform. And I am sure it would make you happy as well...
I have been using a lot of different platforms in my life and for the moment my employer has Win XP as a standard for the desktops/laptops but at home I switched to Mac OSX a year ago.
Without regret. I do not have to spend time anymore in rebooting, crashing, reinstalling, virus-scanning, spy-ware checking, upgrading... and on top of that the OS is so much more fun to work with
Some of the people close to me switched as well now (Basically because they saw how enthusiast I was and maybe because I stopped giving support for Wintel... )
Some others really stick to Windows for all the wrong reasons.
- Price of the equipment: They call a Dell PC a brand A product and compare it to Apple... but compare it to HP for example. The price of the HW is more or less on the same level. On top of that, you will continue to work with your Mac for a longer time, because you are happy with it. With a Wintel after one year you feel that you need to upgrade.
- Price of the software: Difficult one. Why? Because they compare wonderful Apple applications like the ones included iLife (which you get for free when you purchase a Mac, but the future releases are to be paid) with the illegal copies they get for free from friends for the Wintel pc's.
- Availability of applications: "There are some much more applications available for PC". True. How many of the do you use? Paid version of MS Office? Available for Mac. Legal version of Adobe Photoshop? Available. A browser? Available. A mail application? .... get the picture?
Do I want to 'convert' you? No. I just want to share with you how happy I am on my new platform. And I am sure it would make you happy as well...
Do you know why you’re no longer his friend? By the sounds of it, he is exactly like you, just coming at it from the other direction.
Those IT admins who actually take the time to do their homework (and have say in what is run) will generally wind up in a mixed OS environment. Windows is an excellent choice for some problems, a lousy choice in others. Unfortunately, folks like you (and your ex friend) can only play one note, much to the detriment of those you support.
Michael
Those IT admins who actually take the time to do their homework (and have say in what is run) will generally wind up in a mixed OS environment. Windows is an excellent choice for some problems, a lousy choice in others. Unfortunately, folks like you (and your ex friend) can only play one note, much to the detriment of those you support.
Michael
actually it's not the same. the friend here is an example of MS branded cattle (for all i can tell he only knows windows).
the author is familiar with linux, mac os x, and windows (3:1, author).
and thus can make a comparison/choice. how many PC users have compared systems/platforms and concluded that a wintel machine was best for them? not that many.
the author wasn't trying to "convert" his friend to any one OS. he was just trying to show his friend that there are other available ways of getting things done more efficiently.
and anyway i think the point is that many windows users (not just IT admins & pros, but especially them) absolutley refuse to give anything else a fair evaluation and rely on short-sighted, outdated, & bogus rhetoric to justify staying with a system that sucks time & money away from their lives (it creates jobs & self-worth, too; but u know what i mean).
It's the rationale that's under question here.
the puzzling thing is the reasons for clinging on to windows so desperately while flat-out denying any other alternative. rarely do i hear about the merits of windows, but i always hear some cliche BS repeated to me (like it was from the same broken record... u can really tell that no thought has gone in to whats being said) for reasons not to use macs.
and yeah, every OS has its pros & cons... that's understood.
mix & match? fine. IT admins did their hw? cool.
the problem is with those that will blindly use MS products out of self-interest or ignorance rather than to the benefit of the greater objective (whatever ur trying to accomplish with the computers) & their rationale.
the author is familiar with linux, mac os x, and windows (3:1, author).
and thus can make a comparison/choice. how many PC users have compared systems/platforms and concluded that a wintel machine was best for them? not that many.
the author wasn't trying to "convert" his friend to any one OS. he was just trying to show his friend that there are other available ways of getting things done more efficiently.
and anyway i think the point is that many windows users (not just IT admins & pros, but especially them) absolutley refuse to give anything else a fair evaluation and rely on short-sighted, outdated, & bogus rhetoric to justify staying with a system that sucks time & money away from their lives (it creates jobs & self-worth, too; but u know what i mean).
It's the rationale that's under question here.
the puzzling thing is the reasons for clinging on to windows so desperately while flat-out denying any other alternative. rarely do i hear about the merits of windows, but i always hear some cliche BS repeated to me (like it was from the same broken record... u can really tell that no thought has gone in to whats being said) for reasons not to use macs.
and yeah, every OS has its pros & cons... that's understood.
mix & match? fine. IT admins did their hw? cool.
the problem is with those that will blindly use MS products out of self-interest or ignorance rather than to the benefit of the greater objective (whatever ur trying to accomplish with the computers) & their rationale.
